Improving Swimming Technique

Well, Im going to do more swimming and less running due to injury so might as well take this chance to improve my swimming.
I know I should, and have had it in my mind for a while, take some 121 sessions but have not got around to yet, and now that Christmas is approaching I need to spend on others.
So. Im swimming in a 18m pool. Im not pushing off the edges or Ill get to the other end in 2 strokes , and am doing 400m in 10m (not the fastest but at least I can do it all on front crawl which I thought myself only a couple of months ago!). I know I can improve on that, but Im not looking forward to do any open waters so the time will be as realistic as it can on race day.

How many strokes do you take before taking a breath in?
How can Im improve my efficiency?
Does efficiency means: cover more distance in less strokes?
Im currently everaging 7 strokes to 18m lenght.
Is 1 one arm 1 stroke or a set 1 stroke, if you know what I mean?

Thanks

I'm in the same boat as you this winter
How many strokes do you take before taking a breath in?
I tried holding my breath for longer an breathing every 4 strokes but this lasts for only 2 lengths (25M) or so Then I have to breath every 2 strokes and sometimes 3 so I can then breath on the other side for a change
How can Im improve my efficiency?
I am no expert -- but I was told Exercise the shoulders and core muscles. Keep your middle down and heels up so you are a flat on the water as possible. Then swim relaxed and rythmic
Does efficiency means: cover more distance in less strokes?
Yes But very slow strokes yet fast pace takes alot of shoulder strength You will need to find your own pace
Im currently everaging 7 strokes to 18m lenght.
This sounds very good on 25m I can do under 20 but after a 4 lengths I think I am more like 25 / 26 I have room for improvment
Is 1 stroke or a set 1 stroke, if you know what I mean?
1 stroke is 1 stroke. So breath on your right, right arm down, left arm down breath to your right again ..is every 2 strokes. If your strokes are fast then this is too often I found slowing the strokes down made this the ideal frequency for me (a novice and not very good!)


... From an 18 m pool to open water will be daunting
I know I can take an extra breath at the end of each 25 m length which will not be possible in open water

I am not thinking about it now 6 months to go yet !

Absolutely essential, but I am also going to tell you that you have to get coaching if you are going to make real improvements.

You really need to find a longer pool to swim in. 25m minimum.

I really wouldn't worry about time until you have resolved your technique issues.

3 - almost always. You should never be taking even numbers, as this means you are only breathing on one side. You should ideally be taking breaths on alternate sides.

Slow down. Stretch out as much as you can on every stroke. Keep your face looking right down not forward until you roll to breathe. Roll form side to side with each stroke much more than you think you should. You will also need to look at how your hands are moving through the water. And then you will have to examine what your legs are doing. You need training because you have to have someone else to see what you are doing now and what needs to be improved. You cannot do this on your own. You can only practice what the person observing you has told you to improve.

Yes, but different people also swim differently. More or less emphasis on arms and legs etc.

On breathing: you should never be 'holding your breath'. The ideal situation is that you fill your lungs completely on the breath, and then you breathe out continuously as you do your next three strokes, so that when you come to the third stroke and roll to breathe again, your lungs will be as empty as they can be. And so on. This works irrespective of how fast you are swimming, because you just breathe out quicker or slower. Getting this right is one of the keys to efficient swimming.

I'll second what Flying Monkey has said.

Have a look at the SwimSmooth site - if you can't get coaching, you might consider their DVD and associated swim course. (Disclaimer: I have not used it myself, but it gets lots of good feedback on the triathlon forums).

I will disagree with FM on one thing - I swim in a 25 yard pool, and my b/f coaches a tri club who use a 20 metre pool, so 18 metres isn't necessarily the end of the world, especially if you're going to do a lot of drills (which you should, at this point).

Do try and learn to breathe bilaterally (i.e. both sides) - I made myself learn almost as soon as I started learning crawl, and I'm very glad I did. I usually breathe every 3 strokes (i.e. alternately to the right and to the left) except if I'm tired or trying to go too fast, when my stroke deteriorates to every second stroke on my preferred side - I find that trying to stick at a pace I can breathe bilaterally is a good discipline for not trying to go too fast.

I bow to more more knowledgable people like FM But of course my novice may at least give you a marker For 20 or 30 lengths I couldn't stick to 3 stroke breathing Just couldn't

400m 10mins. Sounds good to me.
I'm about 10:15 I took it steady at my 1st aquathon last week and got 10:58
There were fast, medium and slow lanes. I was in the slow (obviously). But there were guys in the same lane who do 7min for 400m!

I am not much more than a novice (only started swimming in February this year). But the one thing I made sure I got right from the start was technique - and I could only do that because I was trained. Everyone needs training if they want to get their technique right. In the end that's the only answer if you feel you are struggling. That swimsmooth site and DVD will help though. It at least helps you visualize what you should be doing.

Swimsmooths good as is total immersion. Theres loads of vids on youtube too.
IME though, if you can, get along to a tri clubs training sessions. It'll get you swimming hard for an hour, with lots of variety of drills and intensity. If someone had said three months ago "right, 50m. You can only use your arms as you'll be dragging someone holding onto your ankles" .....

Breathing to the one side is not a problem and doing so isn't the fault of bad technique. Most elite swimmers have a favoured side and will breath there. Do what is most comfortable and what feels most efficient for you. Doing some training bilaterally (or just focusing on your 'bad' side) is good however so if you need to breath there (to see your position in relation to who you are racing, or if in open water avoiding waves or the sun) then you can do it competently.

How many strokes to take between breathes varies and is so reliant on the distance being swum, the size of the pool and the fitness and lung capacity of the swimmer.

Hi 007 fair, thanks for your reply, I dont plan to do many open water (mainly due to a fear of cold water ) but I am comfortable in water (qualified as Padi rescue diver about 10 yeras ago).
Good luck with your training and do keep posting about how you are getting on .

hi FM, unfortunately this is the size pool of the gym where Im a member but I do go try and get to a 25m pool once a month and Im planning to go to a 50m pool next week! It's a bit far from me but really want to try a longer pool. I think there are a few 100m pools in the country but that is way too far!

At the moment I found a nice rythm by taking a breath every other stroke, then 4 stokes, breath, 2 strokes breath, 4 strokes breath. But like you said, I have also recently noticed that looking down does make a BIG difference. Before I had my head underwater but slightly tilted forward to look at the lane tiles pattern underwater, to give me a sense of direction. Now I look directly down and can feel my body gliding better, as it bring my legs higher which propels me further.
Then after my hands enter the water, I use the hands as a rake to drag the water beneath me and push myself further.
At the moment Im doing 3x 400m sets mainly because I get bored after that, and want to spend some time in the sauna / jacuzzi as well < I do what I call my water circuit!

I tried taking a breath every 3rd stroke but when I 'roll' on the off side to breath, I loose my rythm and streamline. Im not sure if I should persevere until I get it right or as zizou said it may not be detrimental to my technique once I get everything else right.

Hi Gambette, I have looked at Tri clubs (there are none in my 'local' area) and the one which I could do meet up so late 7.30 that it conflicts with my other stuff. Id rather meet 5.30 / 6.00 / 6.30 to go straight after work but cant hang around from work to the club session for 2hrs +

Hi Fimm, and all who had paid coaching. How many lessons do you need does it take, are needed to improve technique?

Cheers everybody

While I don't disagree with Zizou that some people don't get on with three strokes and breathing on alternate sides, what you're doing is never going to be efficient because you are completely messing with your breathing if you are constantly changing how many strokes you take between breaths.It is going to be counterproductive.

On the rolling, you should be rolling with every stroke anyway, whether you are going to breathe or not. My coach told me that even a lot of really strong swimmers don't roll enough and still have this idea that rolling decreases their forward efficiency when actually the opposite is true.

And you can't just try something once and give up. Anything you start doing to improve your technique will mess up what feels natural to you. It takes time to incorporate each change, and for a couple of sessions, you may even feel you are regressing. But you have to stick with the changes. That is the point of training!

Mind you, you also first need to know that you are actually making the right changes and doing them correctly, which is why you need someone else to look at how you are swimming. I had just a half hour session with my coach once a week for the first few months and then less frequently as we went on. I was lucky in that since I had never really swum before, I had few ingrained bad habits. This made for fast improvements. See here: http://tritillicry.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/last-week/ and read on...

I'll add my two pence worth.

How many strokes do you take before taking a breath in?
Whatever allows you to swim and breathe without drowning is my honest answer. I try and do three in the pool and jump between three and two. Open water I tend to breath every two strokes and change sides frequently so I can do both. You should try and get an open water session in if possible as you can't see where you're going in a lake or river and swimming in a straight line needs a little practice.

How can I improve my efficiency?
Coaching. Fitness. You've made good improvement but I cannot recommend swimming and tri clubs enough. I started at a masters swim club very daunted about going. They were great and really helped. Some people there encouraged me to go to the tri club also. Wish I'd have gone sooner. Swimming has gone from being my weakest of the three to not worrying me as long as I keep up the training. Technique work is essential but the hard swim sessions are also important to improvement.

Does efficiency means: cover more distance in less strokes?
Yes but as long as you are comfortable and not expending more energy. It comes with time.

I'll also add it never gets easier, you just swim faster and further and usually learn to love it if you don't already.

Thanks FM I understand and agree with you, much apprecciated your feedback. If the 'right' and best way for 'me' to improve is to do bilateral breathing then that's what I will do. I have tried so many different things and I know what you mean that by chaning it feels like regressing but I know that it will spin around the other way in no time! A bit like swimming v e r y slowly in order to manage more lenghts in front crowl etc etc. With regards to the 121's I dont think I can really treat myself to weekly x 3 months sessions! But will def give it a go as soon as my cashflow improves

Hi Ghost Donkey, thanks for your reply. I do love being in water, it feels so natural and liberating, relaxing. Just dont like cold water!

While I don't disagree with Zizou that some people don't get on with three strokes and breathing on alternate sides, what you're doing is never going to be efficient because you are completely messing with your breathing if you are constantly changing how many strokes you take between breaths.It is going to be counterproductive.

On the rolling, you should be rolling with every stroke anyway, whether you are going to breathe or not. My coach told me that even a lot of really strong swimmers don't roll enough and still have this idea that rolling decreases their forward efficiency when actually the opposite is true.

And you can't just try something once and give up. Anything you start doing to improve your technique will mess up what feels natural to you. It takes time to incorporate each change, and for a couple of sessions, you may even feel you are regressing. But you have to stick with the changes. That is the point of training!

Mind you, you also first need to know that you are actually making the right changes and doing them correctly, which is why you need someone else to look at how you are swimming. I had just a half hour session with my coach once a week for the first few months and then less frequently as we went on. I was lucky in that since I had never really swum before, I had few ingrained bad habits. This made for fast improvements. See here: http://tritillicry.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/last-week/ and read on...

Irregular breathing is a common training exercise to improve lung capacity. For a longer distance swim, particularly when fatiqued then i dont think 4-2-4 will be easy to maintain (and it would likely be detrimental to performance doing so) and it would drop to every 2nd stroke, but otherwise if that is what xxmimixx feels comfortable doing when training then i dont see a problem. Different people experience oxygen debt in different ways and if someone feels good going 4-2-4 then they should stick to that.

What about.
100m(?) swim with right arm extended, stroke only with left arm, breath on left side
100m(?) swim with left arm extended, stroke with right arm only, breath on right side
100m, normal stroke, alternate breathing each side every 3rd stroke?
1st 2 get used to breathing on a particular side, 3rd brings it together?

The problem is, Zizou, that anyone can easily feel completely comfortable doing something that is really inefficient and not as good as one could be. If the aim is just to be a leisure swimmer then there's no problem. But if someone wants to improve and compete, they need to have someone else look at what they are doing and why. That's why we all need coaching. I am not expecting anyone to change everything based on the specific advice that I or you or anyone else offers here (although I did drills like gambatte when I was taught how to breathe properly), but what they should be doing, if they really want to improve, is get real world help. There really is no substitute.

Very much agree with Flying Monkey.

WRT cost, I've had coaching with my triathlon club, and through a Masters swim set (though this one was more like an "advanced adult improvers" set in the slower lane: it was run by a man who is also a member of our triathlon club. Some Masters clubs are more aimed at people who have swum since childhood and assume you can do fly and stuff...). The Masters swim was in the Council pool so I didn't pay anything over the membership I was paying anyway.

I agree that elite swimmers often breathe one sided when they are racing. However they will undoubtedly breathe on both sides while training. And they're elites and we're not. In open water, it can be an advantage to be able to breathe either side, as you can then avoid the sun in your eyes, or chop coming in on one side, for example.

(I've done sets along the lines of "first length breathe every 2nd stroke, second length breathe every 3rd..." up to breathing every 7th stroke on the 6th length! I really can't remember what the coaching point is - something non-intuitive, IIRC. It made sense at the time.)

I agree with what you are saying about coaching just disagree with the point made about breathing bilaterally as opposed to on the one side. Someone can have poor, inefficient technique breathing every 3rd stroke just the same as someone else may have good, efficient technique breathing every 2 (and vice versa). Breathing when needed and making sure you get the technique around that sorted is more important than whether it is every 2, 3 or 4.