Bus driver jailed

The kinda neat and slippery slope in this thread into a portion of the "blame" being on the cyclist, the cyclist's "provocation" being contributory ....... sorry, but I much prefer my non-cyclist friends' utter and total revulsion. No ifs, buts, or anything else.

I have no problem at all in thinking "There but for the grace of God ......."; aye, and I remember a few of my own incidents, think I might want to handle them differently another time, because I surely don't want to end up the way this few seconds ended up. But that's me thinking, analysing, and learning (I hope).

"Blame" the cyclist? No. Think of the cyclist as responsible for "provoking" a momentary incidence of psychopathic driving? No.

Do you think the momentary incidence of psychopathic driving would have happened if the cyclist had just let it go and not parked his bike in front of the bus and got involved in an altercation with the driver?

What? He got cut up/close overtake on the roundabout and after a discussion went on a a bit of a arsey go slow. His mistake was assuming he was talking/arguing to a rational professional driver, and all he was having was some cross words, like with like. Provocation? When did Philip take a swing at the driver or make him fearful of his life? If the driver had just sworn abuse at philip, or even got out and shouted, I'm sure the police would have told them both to get over it. It kind of makes me think the cut up/close overtake on the roundabout as deliberate. Who hasn't come across a psychopath bus driver?

It would not have happened. However one might argue that this is not the issue here. It's the fact that the driver did lose it and drive in the manner of which he drove.

Having said that, I think the majority of drivers (ime) both professional and non are capable of 'losing it' given a certain amount of provocation. And this is such a complex issue to analyse it is far better to self preserve then attempt to engage and possibly aggrevate, and then discuss the ptifalls and perils on a cycling forum! and read to much into victim blaming. When all that is really being said is that the cyclist in this and other situations as well that no doubt some of us have experienced would better to tae down the number and report.

And I do agree with your point.

Neither you nor I are in any position to give a serious answer to that question - my supposition would be as wild and unfounded as yours.

All I can honestly say is, as I have already, that I might want to handle some of my own incidents rather differently another time.

And even then, there's no guarantees. The van driver who quite deliberately walloped me with his mirror on Wednesday did so AFTER I had entirely ignored his close pass and verbal abuse.

Sorry, but what you describe above is omitting certain details? The cyclist parked his bike in front of the bus, started to grab a windscreen wiper yelling at the driver and the rode out from the kerb keeping a parrellel line with the bus driver when the driver tried to overtake? All what I've seen and read of course.

Once again, you have no way of knowing whether this is true.

But surely if the cyclist did not set off a the same time as the driver then the collision would not have happened?

I set off at the same time as lots of drivers and they don't deliberately swerve into me.

I really shouldn't be amazed at the amount of cyclists on here who are happy to bend over and spread their cheeks.

As do I, but from the OP and a hypothetical point of view I tend not to engage any further then I need to, that would potentially bring me into furthur conflict after the fact has been asertained that the driver will not listen to reason.

In such a situation the other party is usually a long way down the road before I set off. This is after making a note of the reg/company of course.

It's not about being submissive, merely self preservation.

Right oh, but this is accepting road rage as one of those things, just cos you have an argument/discussion with your other half doesn't mean you are inviting violence. Is there a parallel?

Yes, none of that has anything to do with your claim that the driver's actions were caused by the cyclist.

I never said it was, just that if I was in the that sitution I would have let the driver go on down the road.

You cannot compare the above with altercations that you have out on the road for the simple reason that you don't know other road users like you know your ''other half''.

You said the assault wouldn't have happened if the cyclist had behaved differently. You have no possible way of knowing this.

Never mind fault, righteousness or high-minded principles for the greater good of the cycling community. I quite like being alive. Here is something that was drummed into me at an early age...

"Here lies the body of Johnny O'Day
Who died Preserving His Right of Way.

He was Right, Dead Right, as he sailed along
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong"

quoted by Eric Hiscock in "Cruising Under Sail", Oxford University Press, 1st edn, 1950.

I agree with Norm, although I'd reduce it to something like 'don't piss people off unless you can make it stick'. Anger might be righteous, but it's not always sensible.

But that comes under the heading of 'good advice'. It doesn't come under the heading of 'code to be followed on pain of being run over'. The bus driver had no business hitting the cyclist with his bus. And, lest any of you are in any doubt, it's the kind of 'good advice' I've never heeded.

Here's the bit you really won't like. I cannot for the life of me see the point in sending him to prison. I wouldn't want him behind the wheel of a bus, or even a car, anytime soon (twenty years should just about do it) but sending him to prison won't make him a better person, and won't make the world a safer place in the long run. It will probably punish his family more than him and will cost us all a fortune.

My point in a general way is this - we, all of us, tend to feel more strongly about crime that seems to be heading in our direction. I confess that I get a bit Judge Jeffries when it comes to bike theft. And, as our expectations of retribution increase, so does the prison population, and so, spookily, does crime, as those emerging from prison find themselves in posession of fewer good habits than when they went in. The sensible thing in this case would be to ban him from driving for ever and give the man's weekends to the community for the next five years.